Yong Pratt 0:01
Today on the podcast, I have part number two of my interview with Jeff Harry, A play expert. And in this portion of the interview, Jeff is going to walk us through some choices we can make, and some actions we can take in order to cultivate more play into our everyday lives. If you haven't already listened to Part Number one, I would highly encourage you to go back and listen to that episode first, so that you get the very most out of this episode. It was number 330. And you can find that that www.Yong Pratt.com/330 or come on over into the Arena of Awesome where you can see the video version of this interview. Okay, my friends, I'll catch you on the other side, enjoy.

Yong Pratt 0:45
Have you ever felt like there was something missing in your business, something holding you back from the success you're seeking? If so, you are not alone. For nearly 20 years, that's exactly how I felt as a business owner. It wasn't until I discovered Human Design, that it all became clear. And it turns out that I was the missing piece in my own business. Join me on this journey of discovering the real me and hear stories from other business owners, building businesses program all of their awesomeness. I'm Yong Pratt, and it's time my friend to Amplify Your Awesome.™

Yong Pratt 1:27
So I'm such a science nerd. So I want to know, when we're playing what happens inside of our brains and in our bodies, that helps us tap into creativity help us to silence that inner critic to help us to overcome some of those obstacles.

Jeff Harry 1:43
So what's happening when you go into a flow state, so usually your brains in a beta state and your prefrontal cortex, that's where your inner critic lies, that is probably the thing that's getting most in your way. But your inner critic is also there to protect you from all the dangers in the world. Right? That it's, it's it's important to be there, right. But then also now that we are dealing with caveman times and tigers, like it just runs amok. But what happens when you go from a beta state to a flow state, is you go through something called hypnofrontanality where a part of your prefrontal cortex actually shuts down. And this is why like time becomes distorted, and your inner critic starts to dissipate, and then you your implicit mind appears and you become highly creative. And then you get a shot of dopamine, and you can become very curious. And then instead of seeing the world in a very results oriented way, which a lot of adults This is where a lot of their suffering comes from, is like they're fixated on one result, right? And expectations are the thief of joy, right? Instead, when you're in a flow state, all of a sudden, all these possibilities are in front of you. All of these opportunities are in front of you. And you know, you felt this like when you've gone traveling. And you're in that that yes, and state where you're like, I'm going to ride this, I'm going to take this, I'm going to hop on this moped with this random stranger, they're going to take me to a deserted island. Now I'm at a party, oh my gosh, I'm at the best party in the world under, you know, the full moon, you know, singing with random strangers that are now my best friends. How did I get here? Because you were in a flow state, you're willing to say yes to stuff you're willing to be open. This is the magic, right? And when people are like, Well, that seems so woowoo Well, let me ask you, this is like, when have your plans ever worked out perfectly right? Like when has your linear plan? If I do a that I get to be do I get to see, like, if you look back at your life, nothing is linear. Nothing has, you could have never guessed how you would get there. Right? So why? Why are we planning what's so strict, instead of just being open to what the possibilities might bring? Because when you're doing that, that's when you can actually amplify your awesome.

Yong Pratt 4:00
So good. I love that you said it like that. And as you're explaining this in the flow state and what that feels like, I'm reminded of the idea of entering Einstein time, where you go into the state, everything is flowing, but you have more than enough time to do everything you want. And what you get at the end is far greater than anything you could have ever planned.

Jeff Harry 4:20
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of times, you know, if you think about it, even in business people are always trying to force it right like you got a grant and you got to you know, fight this but you know, as Gay Hendricks talks about this being your Zone of Genius. Like you have your Zone of Incompetence, which is things you're not good at. Zone of Competence, things that you're like average at. Zone of Excellence, which many people stay in, which is things you're really good at, but you like don't really care about it either way, but you like the admiration for it. So that's why you do it. Let a lot of people do a lot of their work in their Zone of Excellence, but zone of genius is the stuff where it's truly you. Where you forget about everything, you know, and you were just fully present. And and people you would be like, you know, I'll do this for free or I'll pay to do this because I enjoy doing this so much. And the more we can spend our time in our Zone of Genius, it actually has a ripple effect on all of our other work.

Yong Pratt 5:23
Yes, and I love the book by Gay Hendricks, the Zone of Genius, and Joy of Genius and all these things. I just think, again, from the outside perspective in society, it's the idea of giving ourselves permission or allowing for these playful things to occur during the day because they go against the norm. And I know one of the norms we talk a lot about is this eight hour work day and how it's really not a benefit to us. It's sort of a thing that actually harms us. Can you talk a little bit more about play during the day? And why eight hours in a day is probably too much.

Jeff Harry 6:02
Yes. Oh, I love that you asked this question. So I was fascinated recently, with the eight hour workday. I was like, why do we do eight hours of work a day, like who came up with this? So I did some research. And I found out that Welsh labor activists, Robert Irwin, who was also a business owner, created the eight hour workday back in 1817 1870, right, or 203 years ago, and it was eight hours of work eight hours of leisure, eight hours of sleep, like that was the logic behind it? Well, guess what, no one touched it, no one implemented it, you know, for 100, over 100 years, you know, basically, people were working everyone 12 to 15 hours, then then the Great Depression hit and Henry Ford could not get any staff to come to assembly line because they were dying on the assembly line. So he reduced the hours from 12 to 15 hours, down to eight hours to attract more people. And then he doubled everyone's salary, which caused a ruckus in the car industry, and just the industries in general, because I What are we doing, we you know, we want to squeeze as much out of people as possible, but he was just like, that's not helpful. And he found that people were more productive, and he made more money with them working less, but doing good work, right? Since then, since 1926, 94 years, nothing has changed. No one has questioned why we do eight hours a day. Yet studies have found that most people cannot focus for more than two hours and 53 minutes in a given day, they cannot be productive for more than that time. Maybe someone is, uh, you know, it, excels and they can focus for three to four hours or four to five hours. But it's just not natural for us to be focused for that long period of time. Yet, our our day, our workday is extended now to 8.8 hours, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So my question to people is, what are we doing for 5.8 hours? Like, what are people doing, and what they're doing are really dumb meetings. I'm looking for other jobs, making busy work, a lot of people are doing a lot of BS work to justify their job, you know, or they're on social media, or they're like figuring out other things to do besides work, like 85% of people right now are disengaged at work. That study was done before COVID. So just imagine how many people are sitting at home right now being like, I don't want to wear at work anymore. I don't want to go back to normal. My manager wants me to go back to normal, but I don't like normal like, like normal sucked. Like I commuted two hours a day. And you know, like a lot of people were in their car, like what average amount of travel was like, eight years of your life in commutes. So it's just like, what are we doing? Like the way we're even approaching work is so wrong. So if you only have three focused hours that you can do your work? Wouldn't you want your staff to be doing the work that they do best? You know, so I challenged people all the time team leaders, hey, you only have three to four good hours per day to ask your staff. Why did you ask them about the staff that your staff about the work they love to do most? The work where they forget about time that flow state work? Ask them what percentage of work do you currently do that? Is that work? Oh, it's only 10%. You only talk to staff? I mean, you only talk to people and connect only 10% of the time. Can we increase that to 15%? Because maybe that's just one extra hour a week because studies found that if you allow people to do that flow work, it again has a ripple effect that that makes you highly productive and all the other work that people usually do like to do

Yong Pratt 10:02
Such good statistics that it's hard to believe that for so long we've been in this, this habit of doing the eight hour workday. And now there's 8.8, I would almost venture to say it's longer in the sense that so many people are taking work home. They're multitasking. They're watching TV shows with their kids, and they're checking their work email, or responding to an email, or finishing up that proposal before the next day. They're not even leaving work at work. So we're probably closer to that 12 hour workday that started off right getting Right.

Jeff Harry 10:33
Right. And yeah, yeah, and we're in the thing is, is we're not doing good work. Now, that's not good work. Right. And then again, another big regret of the dying is I work too much. So it's just like, what are we doing? Like, you know, instead, we should be doing less work. But the work that we should be doing is the work that makes us most alive, let's focus on that. Because that is actually the stuff that we need in this world right now.

Yong Pratt 11:03
Yeah. And when you're most alive, and you're getting paid to be you and do what you're really good at. That's the sweet spot that we're all striving to get to. And so for those of you listening, think about what your business could look like. If you know that people could only focus for three or four hours a day, including your staff, how could you rearrange the tasks that they are doing right now or that you're doing so that everyone stays the most productive by working less, and then by you, acknowledging the work your your VAs are doing or your your employees are doing? And you're saying, you know, I only want you to work this much time, because I want you to spend time with your family and do what you love to do and do something outside of work. I think the culture of companies could change drastically. And very quickly,

Unknown Speaker 11:51
Drastically. I mean, and let's talk about like how play is incorporated at work at some of the top organizations, right, like Google does the 20% rule, where they give their staff a fifth of their time to pursue whatever thing they're curious about, as long as it helps the business out. Right. That's their play. Well, guess what has come out of the Google 20% rule. Google Meet came out of that. Gmail kind of came out of that. Billion dollar ventures that Google has have come out of that specific thing. Or Tony Hsiea, who is like drastically missed from Zappos, same idea. He actually would pay people three grand to leave his company, because he only wanted people that actually wanted to be there that were like, willing to be nerdy, willing to be weird, like, willing to show up fully as themselves, you know, like, just do strange things all the time. Because he realized the culture is more important than just doing work and just being productive.

Yong Pratt 12:55
So I'm curious to know your thoughts on so we know what the bigger companies have done, we know that huge innovation has come from allowing their employees time to pursue their own interests, that will benefit the company. For the small businesses listening, how can they take these ideas and distill them down and help their companies by embracing this idea of allowing people to explore openly in an effort to build a bigger business?

Jeff Harry 13:21
Yeah, I think I think it's worth twofold. I think it's worth first looking at your day, like breaking down the inventory of your day and your staff stay and be like, what, how does it actually break down? What are they actually doing? What am I actually doing? And how much of that work either can be delegated? Or is just bs work? You know, like, like, that is not serving me? And where can I carve out more time each day to do my flow work to do the work that that makes me come most alive. So that would probably be the first thing that I would do.

Jeff Harry 13:59
The second thing is, I would give, you know, Tony Hsiea would do this a lot with his staff is he would empower them to be like, Listen, we have this problem. We have to get you know, this problem we have to deal with, you know, a solution we have to get to, but I'm open to you figuring out how to do it. I'm giving you all of the freedom and I'm empowering you to be the leader and figure this out and experiment and fail and give your staff the opportunity to just experiment with stuff and two examples of this.

Jeff Harry 14:32
[Example 1] is like the Buffalo Bills right now you know football team gave two of their I don't know if they're interns or whatever, but they gave to their interns, cameras, whatever. They wanted a whole floor and they were like you can make whatever Tic Toks you want as long as there are Buffalo Bills related. And these guys are having all this fun. And all of a sudden they're getting more Bills Fans because of these two guys, right.

Jeff Harry 14:58
[Example 2] Another thing the Washington Post a really boring paper, right? Like old paper has this one dude making weird videos on Tik Tok. And all of a sudden, these Gen Zers are like, what's this Washington Post, maybe I should check this out. Like, this is what's happening when you give people the freedom to have fun to play, to experiment to fail, we don't give enough time for our staff to actually fail, you know, and have fun with it. Because, you know, trust me, I've done it with building a huge business, it works. But you have to trust yourself that you don't need to know what the result is going to be. And just be willing to be open to creating the playground, so that people can play and create something awesome.

Yong Pratt 15:46
And again, that takes me back to this idea of trusting ourselves and listening, and not being tied to a certain outcome, but just trusting that if you follow this process, if you have fun, if you play during the day, you allow yourself and your staff to make mistakes and experiment and figure out fun new ways to do business. That's going to go a really long way, again, in creating that goodwill, and creating people who want to stay with your company, because people are so motivated by doing these things and, and being with companies that give them the opportunity to explore their interests that support their outside endeavors that give them an opportunity to to really be their best at work. And just imagine how your employees are going to react. If you start taking these little bits and chunks that have been shared. And you allow them just to experiment in play. How much more fun could the day be?

Jeff Harry 16:41
How much more fun could your culture be? Right? And and this, here's just one other suggestion that I think is really getting in the way of our awesome is, is that inner critic that I talked about earlier, you know, the one that's constantly trying to protect you. And I'll be quick with this. But, you know, if you want to address your inner critic, here are quick ways in which you can just deal with it directly. My friend Marsha Shandoor, told me all about naming your inner critic and the power of doing that. So guess what, next time, your inner critic shows up, and you'll know that it showed up because you're going to be feeling like crap. And you won't know why you're feeling like crap, but you're just feeling it, right? All of a sudden, I want you to do this, start writing down what your inner critic is saying, like, what what are you saying to yourself right now, like, I'm not going to be successful, I'm always going to be alone, my business is never gonna do well. You know, all the mean things. I'm an imposter, blah, blah, blah, write them all down on a piece of paper or type them out. However you want to do that, right? As soon as you write them down and start to look at the list and be like, who is saying this? Right? You know, what does this person look like? What does this person sound like? Is it my bully from third grade? Is it that person from a high school? Is it that teacher? Is it my uncle? Is it my parents? like who is this weird person that is saying all these mean things to me? Mine happens to be Gargamel right from the Smurfs. So when Gargamel shows up. Now, I can be like, Oh, hello Gargamel is like, yeah, you suck, you're never gonna be anything, you're never gonna be successful, you're gonna always be broke, blah, blah, blah, right. And what I do is, I either text my friend, Dana, and I'm like, Hey, Gargamel showed up. And simply by doing that, and shining a light, it actually quiets down, you know, or I address gargamel directly, and I'm like, wait a minute, am I going to be broke? Actually, my bank account looks pretty well. Oh, wait a minute, is my business is going to be successful. Actually, it's doing really successful. I just did something with the Department of Homeland Security. Gargamel. So you start responding back to it, you know, and then you're like, you know, it's not that bad. And then because Gargamel says like, okay, I'll get it. No, okay, sorry, I'm just gonna sit in the back seat, you know, but as long as we try to push our inner critic down, or even destroy it, instead of befriending it, and playing with it, it's going to come back with a vengeance over and over again. But the more we're able to acknowledge it, the more we're able to quiet that down. And once we quiet that down, then we can hear our inner child, our inner superhero, that's whispering all of that goodness that you've been looking for.

Yong Pratt 19:19
And that reminds me so much of kids, because you set these rules, and because they're kids, and they're curious, they want to break the rule. But if you just let them try it and do it, it quiets that critic are quiet that desire to want to do that thing, or to to live into that thing, because they've experienced it. So I love this idea of naming your inner critic because Yeah, and I want to know to like, come back and share with us what your inner critics name is, I'm going to take some time and figure out what mine is because I know I know what mine sounds like and and now that it's wintertime and the fireplace goes, I sometimes will just write it on paper and like crinkle it up and throw it in the fire or watch things burn. And that also is a great way to just sort of release that back out into the, to the atmosphere and, and

Jeff Harry 20:05
It's interesting too what the names of them like, you know, some of my clients names are like Frugal Frank, Tila Tequila. I ran an inner critic workshop, like, this is what I do a lot of times, and I remember someone coming up to me and they were like, I hate this workshop. And I was like, Oh, my, oh, why do you hate this workshop? Tell me more. And I and I had heard her speak in front of like the 100 people that were in the room. And she goes, because my inner critic is saying, I'm not good at being my inner critic. So it's like, it's like so meta, that you have multiple voices that are coming in. But if you simply acknowledge them, then you can address it so that you can pursue the darkness that is you.

Yong Pratt 20:45
So good. So you mentioned earlier that you love creating Tik Tok videos, I want to hear more about why you love Tik Tok, and how these Tik Tok creations are allowing you to connect with more people who need what you're offering in the world.

Jeff Harry 21:00
So what's fascinating, there's like a lot of criticism around Tik Tok. But what I love about it is it's one of the only social media platforms where there are people playing and being ridiculous on there. And then of course, you have your Instagram influences and all that. But like if you think of Instagram, it's all about being perfect. If you think of Facebook, it's all about you know, also being perfect on Twitter, it's all about arguing on LinkedIn, it's all about being professional, but then Tik Tok like people are acting a fool and they're not even sharing this with their, with their friends. Like they're like, this is my Tic Tok family. Don't tell anyone that I do this. Right? Now you have all these people that are being ridiculous, my friend 80s era and you got to follow her on Tik Tok like she's, she's an actress, and she hasn't been able to act because she's been living in Kansas City. She used to be an actress in Hollywood for such a long period of time, but then they moved to Kansas City in this not as many opportunities. But now Tik Tok has given her the freedom to, to recreate all these characters, and now she has like 10 different characters. And she's been putting them out in the world. And people love them. They're like, when is Marco Marconi coming back? When is this person coming back? Like she, you know, she has all these, she's, she's able to express and have such an impact on this world. You know, and like, I think like, 300,000 people now have seen her tiktoks Right, right. And she only has like, maybe 10 12,000 followers, but she's having this impact.

Jeff Harry 22:26
The reason why I make Tic Toks even though like Not a lot of people follow me is because it Prime's my day in a positive way. It Prime's my day to see the world as play. And when I'm able to see the word world is play, then sky's the limit right and then my friend Deserae. This is another exercise that's really fun. Deserae always asked me to ask myself the question, how can it get any better than this? So when something good happens, or you start the beginning of your day you go, how can it get any better than this? So I started my day by creating a Tic Toc. Whoo, how can it get any better than this? Then I hopped on a podcast with this guy, you know, Louis, who was a learning development guy. Oh, how can it get any better? This? Oh, he's Filipino? So we talked about you know, and he's a Golden State Warriors fan. Oh, how can I get even better than this? Oh, then I you know, I wrote this, like HR firm, you know, this, like huge dossier of like, what they could do to incorporate play into their into their company? Oh, how can it get any better than this? Now Yong and I are talking on this podcast? Oh, how can it get any better than this? You know, I get to brainstorm with my friend Lauren in a few about like, all these new ideas we want to do for organizations, how can it get any better than this. And when you constantly are asking yourself that with curiosity, you're stacking all those positive priming moments. Now, on the flip side, when you have a bad day, I challenged people that I challenge them that they didn't have a bad day that they had a bad moment. And then thoughts usually lasts between nine seconds and 90 seconds. So what happened is you had a bad moment. You ruminated about that bad moment, 1000 times over. And then when you finish ruminating about that bad moment, you will look for more bad moments, thus adding up to a bad day. But if you can simply flip it back and ask yourself the question with curiosity, how can it get any better than this? You can change your entire day, if not your entire life.

Yong Pratt 24:27
That's such a great question. And I may need some tutorials on Tik Tok because I I do have a Tik Tok account. And I put very little there. You make it sound like so much fun though that I want to start my day with Tik Tok and be crazy and silly and and then see what's going to get better. And I love that that shift in perspective, because I think sometimes that's all it takes by reframing our experiences and looking at the positive things are what what's happening that can help us really propel the day so we're going to reach the end. We really You just can be so joyful and grateful for the day we've had because it's been so awesome because we've expected it to be even more awesome with every experience.

Jeff Harry 25:07
Yes, absolutely.

Yong Pratt 25:09
So good, so good. So I want to make sure that people can connect with you follow you on Tik Tok, or come to your website. Where is the best place that they can go to find out more about you and the work you do and how you serve people?

Jeff Harry 25:23
Sure, so if you want to see my ridiculous videos, I'm at the handle Jeff, j-e-f-f h-a-r-r-y p-l-a-y-s and I'm on Tik, Tok, Instagram, YouTube, Medium, all those LinkedIn all at that handle. And then if you want to go to my website, it's www.RediscoverYourPlay.dom. Simply click the Let's Play button. I have a bunch of play experiments that I talked about on this. And then you can also hop on a call with me and we can figure out how you can kick ass in this world and Amplify Your Awesome™.

Yong Pratt 25:58
Yes. And before we wrap up before we hopped on the interview, we're talking about all sorts of fun things. We have such a good time before we even press play or press record on this episode. I'm reminded though because you said something that caught my interest about how you can goodwill hunt my listeners?

Jeff Harry 26:16
Yes. See, yes. So you know, you know the movie Good Will Hunting right? For a lot. But for a lot of people that don't. It's it? Well, it's first fascinating that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck created that movie, because they were getting no play from anyone. They couldn't get any roles. So they created their own. They created their own movie. That's how they got to become stars, because they made this right. So that's fascinating in and of itself, just playing. But what I loved about Goodwill Hunting was, so Matt Damon is a genius in the movie, and he can have any job he wants at anything tank where he'll make millions of dollars and be super successful. But at the end of the movie, he's working construction with his friend, Ben Affleck. And they're sitting at the construction site, you know, eating lunch, and Ben's like, you know, when are you going to take one of these, you know, high paying jobs, right? And that's like, Nah, I'm not not going to do any of that, um, you know. I'm going to work construction. We're going to raise our kids. We're going to watch them play baseball and Foley field. You know, that's just what I'm going to do. And Ben stops, and he goes, if I see you here in 20 years, I'm going to kill you. Like, I'm literally going to kill you. You know what he's like, what, what I owe it to myself. And he's like, No, you don't owe it to yourself, you owe it to me. And you owe it to everyone else at this construction site. They would give anything I mean, anything to have what you have. You're sitting on a winning lottery ticket, and you're too scared to cash that in.

Jeff Harry 27:50
And for each and every one of your listeners, you're sitting on a winning lottery ticket. You know, there is something magical and awesome about you, that you might be also scared to do but also know, this is what makes you come most alive. Right? That like I tie it to the Howard Thurman quote, you know, don't ask what the world needs, ask what makes you come alive because the world needs for more people to come alive. And the reason why is because when you show up, other people are waiting for you to show up so they can show up. So when Yong took the risk of, you know, to start that podcast, she gave all these other people permission to hop on her podcast and share their knowledge. And now I'm lucky enough to share and show up. So now you're hearing this. So now you have permission to show up. And there's countless people that are waiting for you to show up so they can do something amazing, and amplify their awesome in the world. So my question to you is, are you ready to show up?

Yong Pratt 29:01
Such a great way to wrap up this interview so beautifully said I literally have goosebumps. I'm getting a little teary-eyed because the way that you share that in the fact that every single listener out there has that something special inside, and there absolutely is somebody waiting for you to show up. So permission granted by yourself by us. Take that leap of faith. Get comfortable being uncomfortable and take those big actions so that you can live that life that you've only dreamed of. Jeff, I want to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. I've had such an awesome time with you chatting and having fun, and making memories and sharing with others and reminding others of how valuable they are. So thank you for being here. Thank you for saying yes. And sharing everything that you do.

Jeff Harry 29:47
Thanks so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Yong Pratt 29:49
Oh my goodness. How much fun were these two interviews. I cannot wait to hear how you are incorporating play more into your everyday lives. You The tips and tools and action items Jeff shared on these two interviews. Next week I have another special guest for you. This guest is near and dear to my heart. She is someone that has been with me or has known me since pretty much the very, very beginning of my entrepreneurial journey. You've heard her name on several podcasts as she connects me with the most incredible people, including Jeff.

Yong Pratt 30:23
Next week we have for you Amy Isaman who is an author. She is a creative coach and a writing coach, and she helps amazing people get their stories onto paper and publish those books. I will catch you then. Cheers.

Yong Pratt 30:40
Thanks for tuning in, do the Amplify your Awesome™!. Let's continue this conversation inside my Facebook community Arena for Awesome while it's still free and open to new members, come share your biggest takeaways and ahas. Plus, every week inside the arena, you'll get access to me and I may even share content I don't share anywhere else. Until next time, my friend, go out there today and Amplify your Awesome™!